Warrior Cat Clans 2 (WCC2 aka Classic) is a roleplay site inspired by the Warrior series by Erin Hunter. Whether you are a fan of the books or new to the Warrior cats world, WCC2 offers a diverse environment with over a decade’s worth of lore for you - and your characters - to explore. Join us today and become a part of our ongoing story!
News & Updates
11.06.2022 The site has been transformed into an archive. Thank you for all the memories here!
Here on Classic we understand that sometimes life can get difficult and we struggle. We may need to receive advice, vent, know that we are not alone in our difficult times, or even just have someone listen to what's going on in our lives. In light of these times, we have created the support threads below that are open to all of our members at any time.
An overhaul is not happening, I have already stated why this is non negotiable in clear detail on page two. You may accept it or be mad about it, but the reality of my words cannot be dismissed. No one, not even I as an admin are entitled to ask a website to clear out everything and start over. You may offer opinions, ideas, and suggestions, all I ask of everyone is to brainstorm an idea that does not involve uprooting everything and starting over, that is all.
The conversation may continue with any number of other ideas, but the overhaul is not a viable option.
Post by strawberrycupid on Jun 3, 2021 0:47:22 GMT -5
okay but like. what about the people that think it's viable, that don't agree with you? that are willing to clear it out to start again? is it just a "too bad, this is what we're doing, deal with it"? because that's definitely what it sounds like. also, i'm sure you're frustrated but i find your response really rude when i was just trying to compromise with you. not even saying to consider it now, do it now. i asked you to consider it later, to be willing to put it back on the table if these things don't work. you say your word can't be dismissed, which sounds rather totalitarian to me. i really don't know how else to interpret that faith.
Since it's been made very clear that a site-wide overhaul, or clan deletion/merging is currently off the table, I'd like to take the time to flesh out the brief idea I had previously, which I believe should satisfy both sides of this argument: those who believe a major change is needed without decreasing the current number of clans. As I mentioned before, both the Forest and Mountain Clans are divided in antagonistic pairs; Day-Night, Sun-Moon, Spring-Fall, and Summer-Winter. However, despite having this plot potential inherently built-in to every clan, I believe that we do not sufficiently take advantage of this for one specific reason; after looking over the Territory map on the Warrior Cat Clan page, it is shown that absolutely none of these antagonistic pairs share a border whatsoever. Every one of them is located at a diagonal from each other, separated by the gathering place, a body of water, or both. This significantly reduces the potential for both plots and conflict between the clans, which in the books, as well as former plots on the Wikifoundry site (rip), focused heavily on controlling land. You can say that Sunclan hates Moonclan and vice versa all you want, but if there's no sufficient location for that conflict to be carried out, then what good is it? In my personal opinion, and feel free to disagree with me, this appears to be part of the reason why the Mountain Clans are more likely to plot with the Forest Clans than with each other. Because the way their territories are currently laid out, all clans who share a border are completely okay with one another.
My proposal: Have some of the clan switch locations with one another. Personally I think swapping the locations of Night & Moon, and either Fall & Winter or Spring & Summer (the Southern Sea is a bit of an issue in Summerclan's case, but as it's leader I'm more than willing to figure something out) would be the most efficient for this purpose. And by "switching locations" I legitimately mean taking out their territories and switching them like one would move puzzle pieces; all inner locations remain the same, the Top clan is just now on the bottom, and vice versa. The characters don't even have to acknowledge the change at all.
You say they don't have to acknowledge it at all, but the idea of an in-universe Mandela effect regarding the territory DEEPLY AMUSES me. "Wait, didn't SummerClan's sea used to be in the south? It's called the Southern Sea!" "Shut up Molepaw, you're not even my real son."
I am willing to consider almost any idea that comes to Classic, but let me be abundantly clear:
There will never be another overhaul while I am an administrator.
This is the one issue I will not debate and as long as I will block it as long as I have the power to do so. I understand if that upsets you, but the last overhaul was hell. It was an awful experience for many of us and I will not put my team through that again. If there are any final questions on the matter, please send a private message to an administrator.
As for the other activity-raising ideas proposed in this thread, keep 'em coming!
Switching the territories is an interesting idea and I'm happy to go for that if everyone else enjoys it too. I think the original design could have included more alliances (SummerClan has to be friends with SpringClan so they can pass through their territory to assault WinterClan) but I don't think that has often worked in practice so a change might be nice c:
There hasn't been a compromise from you strawberrycupid . There are ones that do agree with you that have come to the table to discuss other ideas, and we've had some great ideas be thrown around. But you keep bringing it back to this one thing.
You've attacked others, claiming that their trauma is invalid because you didn't get it, and clearly you don't care about it.
But the reality is the site came out a lot better than it was before the summer of 2019. We haven't had as much leader turnover which is in my opinion huge.
I do agree with achromatic that support for leaders could be better. That we can seek out solutions to perhaps make it so they're better supported, more accessible, make it so the plots on the plot boards gain more visibility and in turn more roleplayers.
We could bring back a list of users if Faith doesn't still have the list of active people on classic leaders could reach out to individually to invite them to roles like MCA or MC. So that way if leaders are struggling to fill a role they can refer to that. But despite the MCAs not being filled not many leaders have made a big note of 'hey I need staff' at least from what I've seen. But hey every bit of improvement can be considered.
But the thing is those fixes aren't going to be worked out and resolved just by scrapping everything. Even if you clear out and start fresh, does that fix the mindset that was worried of 'well if you can't do it you shouldn't be staff'. Would that not make it worse since 'well we have less clans now, what's the problem?'
This discussion has done less to convince me we need an overhaul and clan deletion than maybe taking a deeper look and seeing what changes we can put in place to make it easier for RUs and leaders alike to bring back the feel of this being a fun hobby.
I also agree with GidgetGal though I think if we do flip the mountain clans it might be better to go with Fall and Winter over Spring and summer due to Summer having a sea (and well it's a little awkward unless we maybe mirror the whole map? Make it so PI and the mountain clans are on the northern part of the map with a Northern sea. ForestClans to the south
I really like the moving clans around idea and I think it could work! I unfortunately wasn't able to process everything I read so if I'm missing things please, definitely point it out! I'm sure I am. For now here are some conflicts I see along with some resolutions for it, but if you guys have alternatives or a different point of view on it please voice it!
The Go Big Idea (Extension to Gidget's idea)
Conflict: Enemies Are Who You Choose
I don't think there are inherent enemies just based on clan names. Like Day and Night have been rivals with some leaders and best friends with others! But Day and Winter, THEIR real enemies and their miles apart! So what I'm saying is that enemies are based on whoevers leader. Maybe right now MountainClan's are peaceful, but maybe you'll switch to being next to WinterClan and then suddenly WinterClan has a nice leader who's even more peaceful than your last neighbor. For instance even if we wanted there to be a Day VS Night, it just won't happen if their leaders neutral or perfectly agreeable with mine. With that said though I think your idea ABSOLUTELY makes sense and I believe would work! For instance Day VS Sun, such a great rivalry, them being next to one another really helped. So to me, while this idea is good I just think it maybe needs to go a bit bigger so that it works as effectively as possible.
Resolution to Conflict
I would say let's call the way clans are currently set up as The Default. With that said, clans can move outside of The Default temporarily, at least while testing the idea out. For instance DayClan can be next to WinterClan to have more war conflicts. In rp maybe a tornado forced them out of their lands and they had to move temporarily to there. This could be a year where we allow leaders to move their clans around as they wish to see if this helps with plotting and activity. If leaders end up not liking the move they can always return back to default. Anytime a clan moves I would write a note of it on the Classic Map so people still know where each clan is at all times. Personally I don't think a clan needs to move in order to plot with the clan, but maybe it'll help and I'm willing to try it out!
Conflicts with my resolution
- Although clans aren't nomadic like SwiftClan, they would be moving around and that takes away a bit from SwiftClan
- Might get a bit chaotic with clans moving around, or it might be really calm and not impactful at all, the ideas not easy to predict how it will work out
Yes! As Jet said I did have a prey system idea in the past. Basically the greater amount of activity a clan had according to CPCC the more prey they would get and border space they would receive, which would be visually shown on a map! Of course no matter the activity, a clan could still decide to do plots where they're doing well or poorly so that would not intervene with the leaders ability to come up with plots. It would also be on a volunteer basis on which leaders would want to participate.
To me it seemed like a fun idea. Like if you saw your favorite clan low on prey, it hits a little differently than when you see your favorite clan low on activity. You might be like, "Whoa, these poor hungry cats!" And rp there so your clan gets more food and territory. You're making a fictional and real world impact by rping in the clan, which I thought could be a fun incentive to everyone.
Of course, I know it's not every person's cup of tea, but it would be up to the leader to decide to participate!
Faith would it be possible to maybe expand that into a maybe 'wheel of disasters' where a leader can opt to spin a wheel of events that can occur (it's basically a randomizer) that can occur as a result of the low activity?
Granted I don't know how to offset that for clans with high activity but I think it'd be kind of fun if you are struggling you can take a spin on the wheel of events and then the leader can opt to take it, put it out to the clan (like maybe, chance of catching greencough or an outbreak has started and your cats can have a higher chance of greencough) so that way people in the clan can opt in to use the events.
I know I'm always struggling for ways to kill off cats at times so having some sort of events that people can have happen in the clans could maybe be a good idea to boosting activity?
While Enemies Are Who You Choose might be true for Dayclan and Nightclan, I would like to point out that Sunclan and Moonclan being bitter enemies is an essential part of the lore for both clans, which has not been utilized to it's fullest extent due to having nowhere to fight or create conflict. It's actually a bit worse for them in particular over the Mountain Clans, which at least have the open clearing of the Gathering place to fight should Summer & Winter, or Spring & Fall need to fight with one another. Looking at the Forest Clan map, Sunclan and Moonclan not only don't share borders, but are hindered further from interaction by (as it appears to scale on the map) an incredibly large and wide river. Putting aside the Mountain Clans in general, Moonclan at the very least could benefit greatly from the plotting potential of switching territory spots with Nightclan.
dm me if you want to listen to me ramble about the interstellar soundtrack
2,314 posts
Post by achromatic on Jun 3, 2021 12:35:45 GMT -5
I still think a temporary idea of the contrasting forest clans being forced to share a territory and being forced to choose whether to go about during the day or the night and being unable to leave outside of those hours would be super fun! It could definitely lead to meeting cats outside of the clan (cross clan relationships anyone?) but also fights and skirmishes and it can feel more like diplomatic territorial warlord vibes for the clans!
I see your point, but I still think it would be nice if every clan had the freedom to move wherever they like. I mean, for instance, I would not want to be the one to switch places with MoonClan, I would really put my foot down on that. I've worked really hard with Honeystorm and Racer for years to make Day and Sun have some amazing plots as neighbors and I wouldn't want to give that up. And if NightClan wouldn't want to give it up either than we have a problem.
But if we did my extended idea where anyone can move around temporarily, I wouldn't mind moving for a lil while to give Moon some room to plot and then to maybe move next to Winter for a few months before moving back. I just think it opens more opportunities to all clans and not just the divided sections. Plus it gives Rev Groups more ways to connect to others by moving about.
We actually have done something similar to that and it was really fun! It was a big scale plot where SunClan captured SpringClan and DayClan. SunClan, BrookClan, NightClan, and Primal Instinct were in an alliance so they visited a lot. Then WinterClan and the Regime saved them, it was very enjoyable! In fact currently the Regime is living underneath DayClan so there's already two clans sharing land right now xD
I'm happy to do a plot with Night and Day sharing a territory though! But currently there's some big long term plot in the works for DayClan coming up so I'll have to wait and see when I'll be available and when NightClan might be interested in doing that, but I'm all for it!
Jet, I think you're being a little unfair to Berry. I wasn't a staff member during the overhaul so I acknowledge that I'm not coming at this with the same experiences others are, but I didn't read any of Berry's posts about the overhaul as personal attacks on the staff. They asked for clarification on other staff's viewpoints and experiences with the past overhaul, and expressed that desire for clarification in a poor way. That's something everyone does from time to time, especially if you're someone like me who struggles with understanding/conveying tone through text. The fact that they reached out to the admins with an apology and and explanation of their reasoning shows that they clearly do care, doesn't it?
I wouldn't mind another big site-wide plot like the one Faith mentioned! Depending on if the amount of work for those involved is feasible, of course.
