Warrior Cat Clans 2 (WCC2 aka Classic) is a roleplay site inspired by the Warrior series by Erin Hunter. Whether you are a fan of the books or new to the Warrior cats world, WCC2 offers a diverse environment with over a decade’s worth of lore for you - and your characters - to explore. Join us today and become a part of our ongoing story!
News & Updates
11.06.2022 The site has been transformed into an archive. Thank you for all the memories here!
Here on Classic we understand that sometimes life can get difficult and we struggle. We may need to receive advice, vent, know that we are not alone in our difficult times, or even just have someone listen to what's going on in our lives. In light of these times, we have created the support threads below that are open to all of our members at any time.
Post by strawberrycupid on Jun 1, 2021 19:44:16 GMT -5
okay back on the topic. turtle is right
i don't get how some of you are so traumatized over the overhaul. if anyone, i feel like stark and I should be the ones traumatized by it because we were the ones who were put into our positions because of it. the overhaul was managed so poorly that you guys are completely shutting down the idea of another overhaul when you now have a detailed list of what you did wrong and how to fix it for this time. i don't want to reiterate what turtle said so i'll just say go read it.
while i like some of the ideas, a lot feel like bandages on a gaping wound. like let's take a look at what people need now Dayclan: MCA Nightclan: MCA Sunclan: MCA Moonclan: Deputy, MC Springclan: none Summerclan: none Fallclan: MCA Winterclan: Deputy, MCA Primal Instinct: MC, MCA, soon to be Deputy Renegade Regime: MCA soon Swiftclan: none
overall that is 13 positions that need to be filled. we do not have the userbase for that. and i know someone will say "deputies are optional" but that still leaves 9 positions. and also making deputies optional was stupid anyway.
i also feel we hold onto the past too much and treat those who have had a checkered past but who are trying to improve very poorly. but yknow. on topic.
This isn't back on topic, we're not doing an overhaul.
Also berry the reality is no one gets to say 'I'm more traumatized'. I get that so far classic has been kind of a crap shoot for mental health but I don't think disregarding everyone's struggles especially when you sat in a call with me and Faith and probably some others I don't remember freaking out over the overhaul votes.
I know you and Stark have been dealing with a lot lately but it's not fair to disregard our experiences too.
What keeps coming up is that 'it was poorly handled'
But you won't say besides 'well we didn't do themes'. That wouldn't fix all the problems with the overhaul.
Every 'solution' that you've all countered with are solutions that would take more time and lack the thought to the other problems Faith noted. Of course the admins are shutting it down because no one else is thinking about the fact that there's things that need to be thought about.
You have provided no counter arguments against the points Faith made besides saying 'how dare you shut us down'. It's very telling that most people have been like 'I'm not happy with this, but-' and then moved on because they recognized that ultimately we'd turn to the admins to handle the running of it.
I was willing to recognize 'hey themes might not have limited creativity as much as I thought' but, no one put out 'well how would you run it, how would you handle people wanting to do similar things'
What do you do if after the vote people vote to not follow a theme because they don't like any of the themes suggested, because you still have to recognize that some might have good ideas but not everyone's going to like it. I don't think we all went 'yes swiftclan's going to be the one we wind up adding'
We just wound up liking it the most of all the clans that were presented as it was the biggest leader in the choices.
Which considering I think the highest after it was behind by like 7 or so votes was very telling and it wasn't part of a theme.
The reason the themes we've had since the very beginning probably went through was because since they were starting from scratch and could basically make as many clans as they wanted. Plus if it's one or a handful of people it's very easy to pull up themes like 'day, night, sun, moon', seasons, elements, water, etc etc.
And also that was brand new. It's not so simple because half the fun of making the groups was figuring out how our cats would come survive the apocalyptic event and form new groups.
Berry I'm here if you want to vent, but that is incredibly rude to say that you're more entitled to trauma than someone else. When you come into a conversation putting others down for feeling hurt, it makes others feel like their opinions and thoughts won't be respected or heard. That being said, I am still firm on what I said, I will not allow our staff to have mental break downs again and I will not have our members put into an unstable situation, as well as everything else I listed. If you do not like it and would like to voice it, by all means you may in a respectful manner.
I would like to point out, no one should expect a super detailed, well thought-out idea within the first 24 hours of this thread. People are throwing out broad ideas because that's how you start a more in detail idea. Please do not shame people for this, or tell people to do the impossible. Let people say their ideas, no matter if it's just a simple vague thought or a well planned essay outlining a plan.
Except that's what you guys need to understand because Faith has provided very clear and good reasoning and the thing is this is a cat website.
And most of the empty slots are MCAs! Take out the MCA rankings and you've got:
Moonclan: Deputy, MC
Winterclan: Deputy,
Primal Instinct: MC, soon to be Deputy
That's 4 roles that are currently needing to be filled, which is nowhere near as dire as what it's conflated to be. Would it be great if we had all the ranks always filled, sure, but it's not the end of the world since we've got all the important ones filled and it's a lot better than what we were dealing with pre overhaul.
Yeah, Faith has provided very clear and good reasoning for why an overhaul won't work. While some people are still entertaining the idea or discussing why the initial overhaul went wrong to begin with, others are trying to put their heads together to find legitimate solutions to our lack of activity in some clan areas. We are thinking about the things that need to be thought about. I agree that Berry was a bit rude in her phrasing about the trauma of the initial overhaul, but it's also rude to discredit the fact that the users and mods in this thread are legitimately trying to solve the problem. In any case, you all need to take a step back and cool down before we continue.
Post by strawberrycupid on Jun 1, 2021 20:31:00 GMT -5
i apologize but i do not get it. there were lot of jokey discussions of "oh the overhaul was so traumatic" but like. i've never heard it in a more serious manner. i think a lot of trauma does stem from the way it was handled. and just because it was hard doesn't mean we shouldn't try it again. the best solution is not going to be the easiest one.
especially when you sat in a call with me and Faith and probably some others I don't remember freaking out over the overhaul votes
don't put words in my mouth. back then, i WANTED the overhaul to happen
That's 4 roles that are currently needing to be filled, which is nowhere near as dire as what it's conflated to be.
okay. 5 first off. but like. this is still most of the site. how many people can you look at that don't have a position that can take one? we basically seem to keep cycling through the same users
Thank you for your apology, but you don't have to get it.
I recognize that you were hurting in other issues, now you have to recognize that others have trauma with the overhaul regardless of whether it was joked about or visible or not.
This isn't a matter of it being hard it's a matter that overhauling isn't feasible.
I'm not trying to shut down the other discussions, everyone can of course discuss or be for deletion, or any of the number of brilliant ideas being put out there. We can all recognize that things aren't 'great' but the site's not going to disappear and we're not going to be suddenly left with clans being leaderless.
Bygones are bygones. This conversation is not going to go anywhere if we just throw old events in each other's faces. The past has happened and if you need to have conversations with members to help process and resolve situations then that is very important and I would greatly encourage that.
Lashing out at each other like this is only going to make classic a worse place to be. Mostly for yourselves.
No one is going to have detailed plans right away but the problem is we never move away from these huge broad ideas and get stuck in thought limbo.
I fully support that your position is that you want an overhaul but that doesn't give you the right to lash out or make assumptions about others as a collective.
I also respect those who are completely opposed to it but we can't just say no your opinions are invalid and here's how's it going to be.
This goes for everyone. Voice your opinions till the cows come home but everyone here needs to cool their jets and revisit this conversation when you've calmed down.
We gotta compromise people or nothing is ever going to get better. Stop tearing each other down. That doesn't get us anywhere besides divided and angry at each other.
Post by strawberrycupid on Jun 2, 2021 14:27:03 GMT -5
I've reached out to the admins with an additional apology and my reasoning for what I said. I won't go into detail here but if anyone wants to talk to me about it, my dms on here and discord are open. I'm sorry again.
Reading through the suggestions again and I like a lot of them, though I feel the need to clarify my base opinion has not changed. I definitely think there needs to be more intermingling between the clans, especially outside of their designated groups. I know the go to is things like fights and wars, but what about like clans celebrating their alliances? The idea of other clans being forced together can be really fun too. I guess my only concern with some of these is the idea of making things required. It's like when you love to do something like read, but then when school forces you to read, it makes you resist and not want to do it. Same deal here. We still want this to be fun and feel like a hobby rather than a chore, after all.
To be honest, I think as much as berry might've been a little rude in her delivery and that we shouldn't compare who's more traumatized or not, a lot of the comments are also unnecessary? Telling someone 'they don't need to get it' or that they're making classic worse for themselves sounds condescending and dismissive. To me, it sounds like you're saying 'if you don't like it, suck it up' and that's really not conductive to the convo, not to mention like, there are other users other than Berry with this concern too, and it's dismissive to everyone else's feelings, not just hers.
I agree with uniqcrim in the sense that we need to move on from pointing fingers at who did what wrong during the last overhaul; we should be learning from our past not blaming each other for it. Just wanted to point that out, and that just because their delivery isn't the most appropriate doesn't mean their point doesn't stand?
Yes, we could reduce the amount of MCAs or make it an unnecessary role as well, but I think people who are pro-deletion are simply saying that these feel like temporary fix-its and that we should find more permanent ways to either 1) bring up the activity or 2) provide a safety net for staff who can't handle clans on their own. As much as we can say 'oh, then they shouldn't be staff,' this site needs to work together and it shouldn't be 'every man for themselves,' even for staff.
I also agree that RP should be a hobby rather than a chore, and I agree with baewolf ! Having a good combination of traditional and non-traditional can definitely appeal to the diversity of our site's members, and @lavellan is also right; we won't have complete, finalized ideas from the get-go. Ideas are formed together.
i apologize but i do not get it. there were lot of jokey discussions of "oh the overhaul was so traumatic" but like. i've never heard it in a more serious manner.
achromatic When I said 'you don't have to get it' that was exactly what I was referring to which was berry's response after I tried to explain where my feelings were coming from.
I don't have to get where your feelings are coming from to at least respect them, and not put up a measuring stick to compare which is more 'valid'.
Wanted to clear that up since it was being misconstrued.
And I also agree that baewolf is right, which is currently what we have at the moment, we have the traditional mountain clans, and the nontraditional forest clans. Four clans of each for plenty of options and everyone to pick what they like, along with SwiftClan, Renegade Regime and Primal Instinct for flavor.
As for my words about MCA's, that was to point out that while it's good that we're brainstorming, I think there's often other issues with why MCAs are going unfilled. Some people don't always want to try out. They feel shy, or they haven't really done much in that clan.
Often times I've wound up getting staff by having someone I rp a lot with in another clan and coming over and tapping them to try out, or to give the clan I'm in a try.
So then I think a bigger issue is like what Uniqcrim said the sites having trouble connecting. It might not be us spread too thin per say, but perhaps that we just have such a broad array of options people just haven't met other people and there needs to be more meeting others.
Also maybe we could consider a helper mod who's job is to go on the plot board and maybe tap staff members that 'oh hey so and so has a good idea'
Or like I suggested with a job board to boost apprentice and mentor threads, and maybe patrol threads. I think it could be interesting if people almost made it like their cats were requesting things of their clanmates.
As for the staff thing, I don't believe anyone said they shouldn't be staff if they can't handle it. There is a lot of responsibility yes and we could definitely make it so they're better geared for success. Do you have any suggestions that you want to put out there so we can build upon them?
All right. I must've read it wrong because from my perspective, it sounded a lot more like 'you don't have to get why we don't want an overhaul, but it's not happening.' I'm glad we cleared it up.
I think the idea of helpers who just RP in 'need help' clans could definitely be fun, though the problem would be that not everyone has characters in each clan, so even people who 'help out' might feel overwhelmed with taking the task of having characters in all the clans, you know? Perhaps another idea is a little clan-pairing idea? Perhaps combining the idea of 'territory crossovers' with the idea of pairing off really active clans with the least active clans to plot might bring up some of the activity?
(I didn’t realize there were four pages I only read the first lmao rip anyways here are my thoughts still)
hello friends I know I haven’t been back on the site long, but I definitely see where there’s issues with having so many clans. Personally, I’d be heartbroken to see any of the clans go. I know that creators put so much hard work into their layouts, their lore, and the characters they play. I’m left wondering what a good compromise would be so we don’t lose what past leaders worked so hard for, while keeping activity equally high in all clans.
That being said, I do think that the immense diversity we have is both something that draws new members in and pushes some new people away. It is slightly confusing when so many clans are immensely different. We also have religions that definitely would not merge well, so where does that leave all the creativity that went into the creation of the religion? Or a clan like dayclan, where there were special ranks and a feather system created, would they go because they can’t quite merge with another clan without losing those pieces ?
I do think the best solution to this would be to overthrow what we have now and start with completely new clans, maybe an original four like the books where we have 2 fantasy groups and 2 traditional ones. But another question lies, what happens to all the leaders that we have, medicine cats, and deputies? Inevitably, this throws some members out of their position. I can see both the negatives and the positives, but overall I just want what’s best for the site
Hey everyone, I’ve come on to be completely transparent with each of you. The truth is that having another overhaul isn’t possible any longer and deleting/ merging clans without a criteria isn’t in the realm of possibilities for us on Classic.
As someone who was in charge of the last Overhaul we had to sacrifice: 1) Mental health, a lot of our staff members had actual mental breakdowns from the stress 2) Our ability to advertise Classic, for instance right now we can’t advertise Classic while we have a thread talking about possibly deleting and changing everything on the website 3) Our activity went significantly down. The stress on top of being uncertain if an overhaul was happening made the website feel unworthy to rp on when it could all be gone and replaced with new clans so a lot of members stopped roleplaying altogether 4) Motivation. Staff didn’t want to keep up with activity because they weren’t sure if they would stay leader of their clans or be demoted. They didn’t want to plan long term plots because they weren’t sure if their clan would be gone by then. 5) Innovation, our ability to create new things. For instance I wanted to update the Herb Guide, the Afterlife Page, and plan some summer events, but I would have to focus all my energy on the overhaul changes, which means any other projects we want to do for this website are set aside until that is over 6) Our time as people. We had to pour in dozens of hours of our time organizing to make the last overhaul even close to possible. Even when we delegated we still had to oversee everything and would often have to jump in more times than not to help people helping us out. We were forced to work beyond the normal hours we put in because if we didn’t we would draw this out and lose more activity and membership. We had to lose time with our family and friends. We would go from school and/ or work straight to Classic
As staff of Classic, we always try to give you the world. The community of Classic is why we tried out the Overhaul last time. It’s why we only got a few hours of sleep every night while recording Classic’s history for you. We want to give you everything we have in us, but another overhaul or clan merging isn’t possible or negotiable. I hope you all can respect our stance and still have a fun time on Classic.
But if you like world building and innovating new ways to bring up activity I would definitely encourage you to reach out to some of our clan leaders! Every leader is always looking for new plot opportunities and I’m sure they would love to look over your ideas. You can even message me with some Classic event ideas too, a lot of the entertainment that happens on Classic is thanks to suggestions by our members!
As you noted that you'd focused on the first page I wanted to admittedly draw attention to this post again.
The reason I keep saying this is, it's not feasible for these reasons, and there's only one clan that fits some criteria of deletion. Which doesn't mean it's egregiously bad to where it's dead and needs to go like some of the ones that were deleted back in 2019.
I do appreciate your input! It's good to have a fresh perspective.
But from what I've been looking at your response, I fear that you may have missed some of the things others have noted in the middle (which is fair there's a lot going on in the discussion).
Deletion is not the only solution to boosting activity, it is what should be reserved as a drastic option, not something we should be focusing on right now, and there's very valid reasons why it's not feasible which was why I quoted Faith's reply.
I'm also wondering if perhaps your reply was more phrased in response to just deletion? Or if you had other thoughts about activity?
I'd very much like to hear more about your thoughts about diversity being Classic's biggest strength and weakness, I feel there's something useful we can dig into there that could maybe shed some light on maybe the deeper root of our activity struggles.
Ooo that's a good idea. I know a while back Faith had an interesting idea where activity could cause like effects to clans territory or impact things. It didn't really go through but it's a possibility. Low activity you spin the wheel of 'events' (badger attacks, greencough outbreak, twoleg invasion, kittypet invasion, etc) and that then is something there to boost activity in that clan. But that was more something that popped into my head.
I do like your thought of that we pair clans that are doing well with clans that aren't for like two weeks and they have to have some sort of interaction. Which could lead to some creative interactions when say you roll NightClan interacting with WinterClan. Do we have a romance that results in drama in the clan, a lover imprisoned in winterclan because their paws took them too far and now NightClan needs to get them back while the poor lover languishes in prison XP
I feel like there's a lot of options with that.
And back on the helper mod thought, maybe it's not an official position. Maybe we just have people that volunteer to be part of the plot reporter, they couple together the orphaned plots in the plot board that week and give them to the activity manager, who then passes it on to the mods to look over and see if they can do anything and then reach out to the creators of the plots to try and help them. Maybe that would help alleviate some of the dauntingness of interacting with staff in messages. And that way the person on the plot board is just more of a compiler. They can also be very active of course, but they don't then need to be in every clan like you said, because they're passing it on to the AM to pass it on to the mods who can then work together to look over the plots and see what they can do perhaps.
Post by strawberrycupid on Jun 2, 2021 22:51:13 GMT -5
I don't know many people will listen to me after earlier, but I wholeheartedly believe starting completely new is the best thing to help the site right now. It has nothing to do with activity, but because of the number of members we have being unable to support the current amount of clans we have. I feel like the recent issues of activity has been introduced and then snowballed the discussion.
And I know it'd be hard, especially for those that are currently admins or were admins at the time it happened. So instead of dredging things up, I'd like to suggest something for the future. We have a lot of ideas on boosting activity so lets give it a try for a few months. But if it doesn't work, we bring back the idea of the overhaul with more seriousness. And the admins let the mods and even the RUs help. From how I remember it, it was a rather closed off manner. So if we think of it as one, I can see the hesitance in trying it again. But I know if the whole site works together on it, it won't be a repeat of last time.
